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JaySeaver
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2mckay wrote:
And what the FUCK did he run into out in the jungle that was 10 feet tall? (and more importantly, how did he get away?)

The writers haven't decided yet. Smile

y2mckay wrote:
Which begs a new theory - Is this all some grand "Identity"-style delusion going on in Locke's head?

The writers have said that everyone's really on the island, that it's not a hallucination or some sort of purgatory. Of course, they've also said that they'll be staying in the realm of "unlikely but possible" on the show. The writers lie.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I'd like to offer a heartfelt FUCK YOU to ABC for deciding to rerun what was supposed to be the whole first season, only OOOPS - season 2 premieres in a couple of months, and we won't have time to show them all soooo . . . we're just gonna skip some.

Fucking assholes. At least the DVD is out in September. Only now I'll have to tape a bunch of the new season and save them until I have time to get caught up on the first season. Hell, they probably did it to boost DVD sales.

Damn I'm pissed. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your pain Brian, but there's no way ABC could have rerun the entire season. It didn't end until the end of May. If they'd immediately started reruns, 22 weeks later would have been sometime in November, and there's no way ABC wants to wait that long to start the new season. (Fox does it sometimes because of baseball, but usually everyone wants to start September.)

I do hope they're at least omitting the episodes that weren't too important anyway.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, Brian, you could do what I did and just read all the catch-up spoilers in this great post on IMDB.

I tried to start watching Lost this summer, but then I missed an episode here and there. One day I did the episode math and figured I'd never get up to date without a crib sheet.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, I don't want to do crib notes on it. It just isn't the same. I'll get caught up once the DVD comes out, even if it takes me a month. I just hope the damn show is worth it!

Still, they could have done double-headers here and there to make sure they wouldn't have to skip a bunch of episodes before the new season started. God knows we could use a little less of some lame-ass show like "Dancing with the Stars" blegh. Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox showed two episodes a week of "The O.C." in order to replay the entire season, and with that show, it's not even neccessary to follow it week to week to understand what is going on.

There's no reason ABC couldn't do the same for "Lost," especailly since, at the beginning of the summer, they were billing it as a time to catch up with the first season. UPN should have done the same with Veronica Mars. I don't understand why these networks don't give audiences a chance to catch up with a show once all this buzz hits. Veronica Mars is releasing the first season DVD AFTER the second season starts. How does that help you? They're only limiting the number of viewers for their second season. Seems like bad business to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is. Either they're programming department is full of idiots (quite likely), or like I said, it's a ploy to suck you in and then force you to rent/buy the dvd's if you want to see the whole thing.

Either way, I'm still pissed.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and in case anyone's wondering . . .
still pissed Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay, the first season is out on DVD, and I'm only 3 discs away from being caught up. I see through your transparent ploy, ABC, to get us hooked on the summer repeats and then start skipping episodes or showing them out of order so we'd be compelled to buy the discs. Well guess what - I rented 'em. HA!

So out of curiosity, who is everyone's favorite characters and why? I think mine would be Locke, Sawyer, and Sayid - in that order. That Mr. Locke always has an interesting story to tell, and is mighty handy in the woods with a knife. Sawyer is a bit of a douche, but an irresistably charming one and with just enough good in him to make him a solid anti-hero. Sayid seems to be the most innovative of the group, and his background makes him up to most challenges. Granted, I like all of the characters (even that bitch Shannon), but those three seem the most interesting to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2mckay wrote:
So out of curiosity, who is everyone's favorite characters and why?

Mine would probably be Walt's father, as he seems to be the most practical and least wllfully stupid. It was Hurley, but then they started revealing too much of the whole "magic numbers" thing and he started to look like an idiot, too.

I want Locke and his vague shamanism dead from doing something stupid involving "trusting the island" as soon as possible.

Wow. A little distance has really hardened my disdain for this show.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Season premiere tonight!

DOWN THE HATCH! Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2mckay wrote:
Season premiere tonight!

DOWN THE HATCH! Wink


Damn straight. Just a few hours to go.



Dude, you got some Arzt on you.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was pretty awful.

I can't be the only person who moaned something along the lines of "more mystical crap" when Magic Walt showed up and disappeared to no end, the behavior of everyone vis-a-vis the hatch was chock full of stupid and entirely arbitrary, and the guy inside... Had we seen him before the flashbacks? I don't think so, which strikes me as an enormous cheat - folks are speculating all summer, and then, ha-ha, gotcha, we didn't play fair and tell you enough to make informed speculation! Suckers!

And they really stretched ten minutes of story out over forty here - the flashbacks really served to pad the show and artificially stretch out the end-of-act cliffhangers (yes, I know they served other functions, highlighting the need to sometimes make promises you don't know you can keep or that sometimes seeming miracles can happen, but they were more ham-fisted about that than usual), although the primary function seemed to be shoehorning a new character in.

Altogether weak. No second thoughts about dropping this for Veronica Mars next week.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been a GI-normous defender of Lost during its first season and I was totally into last night's premiere. Until Jay, you're right, once they introduced that character in the flashback - an Australian dude prepping for a race around the world who says "see you in the next life" - you just knew they were going to fuck us and make him the guy in the hatch.

Pretty fuckin' weak!

The curiosity of why he's down there is still with me and for how long. I mean, him and the Doc couldn't have met TOO long ago and there's some distinctly early 80s (and maybe earlier) computer technology down there. So I have a feeling he just ended up there somehow and didn't just build this big Terminator 3 hangar.

I don't mind the mystical Walt stuff. After all, we've come to accept that as part of the island. But they have some makeup work to do.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay - your complaints are valid, but they're kinda old. I mean, come on, - "More mystical crap," "stretching out end of act cliffhangers...They've been doing it for twenty-something episodes now. If you're not into it, and the formula bothers you that much, why are you still watching? I can't imagine why anyone that would be annoyed by "mystical crap" would come anywhere near "Lost." I'm not saying the episode is above criticism, but at this point in the game, I think it would be more interesting to criticize it for things other than what was said by people who decided to tune out five episodes into the run.

For me, I thought it was one of the most suspensful hours of TV I've seen in a looooong time. The opening scene was so brilliantly directed and edited, it hooked me right in and I was on the edge of my seat through the whole thing. The episode had the kind of stuff that you'd expect from a season FINALE, and this is only the first episode of the year.

As far as the Australian dude being the guy in the hatch, I didn't really think it was a cheat. I mean, the flashback "format" seems to be that the events of the island dictate the point in the castaways past we will be seeing. So for Jack to see a dude that he's met before in the hatch, it makes sense that we'd see that point in his life. And the episode did just what I'd hoped it would do - it answered one question while posing another, more interesting one. I'm completely hooked.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Luke- I enjoyed the episode, took it for what it was in the line the show chooses to go (and they can go as pseudo mystical, twilight zoneish as they want as long as they keep it fresh, lively and suspenseful- which in my opinion, they have done). My wife had goosebumps for most of it- also helped by the fact that she has a little Lost notebook (God help me) where weeks ago she figured out that Boone Carlisle's name can be respelled as:

Lab on Isle Core

Probably would have been cooler had I shared this a while back, but man, all things considered, I was pretty impressed that she turned out to be right. Gotta love 20/20 hindsight (mine, not hers).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luke Pyzik wrote:
Jay - your complaints are valid, but they're kinda old. I mean, come on, - "More mystical crap," "stretching out end of act cliffhangers...They've been doing it for twenty-something episodes now. If you're not into it, and the formula bothers you that much, why are you still watching? I can't imagine why anyone that would be annoyed by "mystical crap" would come anywhere near "Lost." I'm not saying the episode is above criticism, but at this point in the game, I think it would be more interesting to criticize it for things other than what was said by people who decided to tune out five episodes into the run.

Well, I'm not watching any more. This episode was its last chance with me.

But I think the "mystical crap" is a valid criticism - early on, the implication both on-screen and in the press was that the story would be science-fictional, at the outside edge of plausible, but not magical. Clearly, that's fallen by the wayside.

I also think the stretching was especially egregious this week, although maybe it's more a matter of having had the summer away from the show to really notice how much time is spent on padding. I also don't recall the flashbacks being used so blatantly to introduce a new element to the island immediately; even the obvious addition of Michelle Rodriguez to the cast is being given a little space to breathe. It's clumsier than usual.

Also clumsier and stupider than usual is how Jack/Locke/Kate acted. Why, exactly, did Locke just have to do it now, and why didn't Kate convince him otherwise? It strikes me that daylight would be a huge advantage when trying to get down that shaft. I could understand guarding the shaft to make sure nothing comes out now that you've blown the hatch, but not waiting the few hour for the sun to come up was just foolish. And Jack, of course, gives a speech about how the community has to stick together and then almost immediately walks off to undercut his message and do the Same Stupid Thing that Locke and Kate did.

This is, of course, on top of the "things that were terribly urgent last episode are almost irrelevent this week" going on at the camp.

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The opening scene was so brilliantly directed and edited, it hooked me right in and I was on the edge of my seat through the whole thing. The episode had the kind of stuff that you'd expect from a season FINALE, and this is only the first episode of the year.

Which means the producers got it backwards, since they didn't include it in the supposed finale in May. Smile

I'm of two minds on the direction. On the one hand, the use of music, the bouncing the POV off the mirrors, and the way we explore the bunker with Jack is all top-notch. On the other hand, the necessary use of odd camera angles to avoid seeing the guy's face struck me as pretty amateurish, the sort of "SEE! MYSTERY! AREN'T YOU JUST FILLED WITH SUSPENSE OVER WHO THIS COULD BE?!??!" thing that is just as likely to come off as laughable as having the desired effect.

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As far as the Australian dude being the guy in the hatch, I didn't really think it was a cheat. I mean, the flashback "format" seems to be that the events of the island dictate the point in the castaways past we will be seeing. So for Jack to see a dude that he's met before in the hatch, it makes sense that we'd see that point in his life.

In the past, I'm pretty sure the flashbacks have been much more thematically linked than actually serving as a means to shoehorn some new plot device on the island. We do see some of that here, with Jack's interaction with Julie Bowen's character establishing the idea of building hope even when it seems unwarranted, but that's rather overshadowed by also using them to set up a big who-cares reveal.

Part of why I stuck with the show for so long, even as my patience wore thin, was because the writing was generally much more clever than what we see in this premiere. If this is the level of what we can expect, well, I figure I'm well shot of it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Luke on this one. Loved, loved, loved the beginning, especially since I thought it was a flashback at first. I was, however, a bit let down at the obviousness/predictability of the "oh, it's going to be THAT GUY in the bunker" stuff. Lost is rarely predictable, and I hope that doesn't change.

As for Walt: who's to say it's mystical? Maybe that was the real Walt, drenched from the sea, hiding from his kidnappers?

Or maybe it's just more mystical crap.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Complaining about LOST being full of "mystical crap" is like complaining about Transporter 2 having too many ass beatings. I don't want to get into a whole big thing here (like the Sin City war between me and Flax a while back), but that's kind of the whole point of the show. And there's nothing so far that can't be attributed to science (even if it's science-fiction), so I just don't get why you are hating on it so much.

Personally, I thought it was perfect, from beginning to end. It gave me exactly what I wanted. I didn't think Desmond being in the hatch was predictable or obvious or a cheat at all. It was nothing short of mind-blowing. (by the way, I'm fairly convinced that the desmond in the hatch is NOT the desmond that Jack met while running in the flashback. Jack couldn't have met him any more than a few years ago, and this guy looks like he's been down the rabbit hole a LOT longer than that).

As for Locke going down the hatch - if you'd spent weeks pondering this thing, studying it, trying to figure out how to get it open, and then you finally did - would you want to wait around until dawn? me neither. Locke summed it up perfectly with his speech. "Me? I'm tired of waiting". And by the way, Locke continues to be the most awesome and fascinating character on the show. All this harping about his "shamanistic mystical crap" is kind of pointless, since the spriitual/mystical qualities are the very essence of his character.

But hey, don't watch it. Go watch Benjamin Bratt on E-Ring instead. I'm sure that'll be much better Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, ,with this post I officially become a "Lost" apologist. I will gladly wear the title.

Quote:
early on, the implication both on-screen and in the press was that the story would be science-fictional, at the outside edge of plausible, but not magical. Clearly, that's fallen by the wayside.


Not necessarily. I think we should be prepared for the possibility that magic is the driving force behind the island's happenings, but I don't think its outside of the realm of possibility that something very real is causing hallucinations (Walt, Shannon's death, Jack's dad) on the island.

Quote:
I also don't recall the flashbacks being used so blatantly to introduce a new element to the island immediately


Locke and his paralysis, Walt and his dead mom and new dad, Hurley and his winning lottery numbers, Kate and her toy plane - all of these were introduced over one episode and brought a new element to the island immediately.

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the necessary use of odd camera angles to avoid seeing the guy's face struck me as pretty amateurish, the sort of "SEE! MYSTERY! AREN'T YOU JUST FILLED WITH SUSPENSE OVER WHO THIS COULD BE?!??!"


I see your point, but I think it worked. Particularly because we weren't sure if we were in flashback, and because of the fact you have those very typical, very obvious "avoid showing the guy's face" shots that are supposed to indicate suspense, juxtaposed with him doing very normal tasks like cooking, working out, playing a record - it gave it a weird, unsettling vibe that totally worked me over.

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did Locke just have to do it now, and why didn't Kate convince him otherwise?


I think in past episodes these characters have both been shown to be particularly impulsive and irrational. Locke gave a dude his kidney and tried to go on a walking tour through the Australian Outback while in a wheelchair. Kate is a frickin' criminal and got her childhood boyfriend killed while very stupidly running from the cops.

Quote:
And Jack, of course, gives a speech about how the community has to stick together and then almost immediately walks off to undercut his message and do the Same Stupid Thing that Locke and Kate did.


I think this is actually a nice piece of character development for Jack. We now know the depth of his feelings for Kate. Notice when the Mexican standoff was going down at the end, his only concern was for her.

Quote:
This is, of course, on top of the "things that were terribly urgent last episode are almost irrelevent this week" going on at the camp.


I don't think those other things are irrelevant, but the show is only an hour long and there are a shitload of characters to juggle. I actually like that the show takes its time and focuses only on one or two characters at a time. It's a nice change of pace from regular ensembles that feel the need to address every character and every plotline in every single episode.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2mckay wrote:
And there's nothing so far that can't be attributed to science (even if it's science-fiction), so I just don't get why you are hating on it so much.

Clearly, we've got different definitions of what can be attributed to scientifically plausible phenomena, at least within the present-day, no-advanced-tech millieu in which Lost takes place. Most of what we've seen with Walt and the Magic CGI Smoke Monster falls outside of mine.

As to why I'm hating on it, that would be because it sucks. The show started out not sucking, but has gone steadily downhill, and has relegated the aspects I find interesting to the scrap heap in favor of the mystical stuff.

Quote:
As for Locke going down the hatch - if you'd spent weeks pondering this thing, studying it, trying to figure out how to get it open, and then you finally did - would you want to wait around until dawn? me neither. Locke summed it up perfectly with his speech. "Me? I'm tired of waiting". And by the way, Locke continues to be the most awesome and fascinating character on the show. All this harping about his "shamanistic mystical crap" is kind of pointless, since the spriitual/mystical qualities are the very essence of his character.

There's being tired of waiting, and there's displaying good sense. I mean, given the choice between lowering someone into an inky void you can't see the bottom of and waiting until the sun came up, what's the harm of waiting a few more hours? Especially when you've got a bunch of scared people at the camp who have come to depend on you? Especially when the last time you plunged ahead with your obsession and didn't pay attention to what the rest of the community was saying, just a couple weeks earlier in show-time, someone died?

Okay, admittedly, that makes Locke more a dick and a fool than unbelievable, but that's part of what makes the show frustrating - we're given intelligent people who routinely do stupid things. The guy's worked at it for weeks, and is always preaching patience when it suits him. "Awesome and fascinating character", my ass.

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But hey, don't watch it. Go watch Benjamin Bratt on E-Ring instead. I'm sure that'll be much better Razz

Man, Lost fans sure are thin-skinned about their show being criticized. This just in: Your show has weaknesses and has been building up an unweildy mythology at a rate even more impressive than The X-Files, and not everybody enjoys that.

Besides, the better alternative is Veronica Mars, which managed to handle build and resolve its mysteries with style last year. That Lost will probably get four or five times more viewers on a weekly basis is just sad.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Clearly, we've got different definitions of what can be attributed to scientifically plausible phenomena, at least within the present-day, no-advanced-tech millieu in which Lost takes place. Most of what we've seen with Walt and the Magic CGI Smoke Monster falls outside of mine.

As to why I'm hating on it, that would be because it sucks. The show started out not sucking, but has gone steadily downhill, and has relegated the aspects I find interesting to the scrap heap in favor of the mystical stuff.


Depends on whether you think things like the smoke monster are "real" or some kind of hallucination. (oh, and to correct what I said earlier, I believe the shows creators said that everything had a "rational" rather than "scientific" explanation - of course, what their idea of rational is, only they know Confused )Look, I see your point, but at the same time, it seems silly for harping on a show for its mystic or supernatural elements when that's the kind of show it has been from day 1. The premise from the beginning has always been "people crash on an island and spooky and mysterious shit starts happening to them". If your threshold for how much mystic/supernatural stuff is plausible is lower than other people's, then that's cool - it's just not your thing. But that hardly means the show sucks

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There's being tired of waiting, and there's displaying good sense. I mean, given the choice between lowering someone into an inky void you can't see the bottom of and waiting until the sun came up, what's the harm of waiting a few more hours? Especially when you've got a bunch of scared people at the camp who have come to depend on you? Especially when the last time you plunged ahead with your obsession and didn't pay attention to what the rest of the community was saying, just a couple weeks earlier in show-time, someone died?

Okay, admittedly, that makes Locke more a dick and a fool than unbelievable, but that's part of what makes the show frustrating - we're given intelligent people who routinely do stupid things. The guy's worked at it for weeks, and is always preaching patience when it suits him. "Awesome and fascinating character", my ass.


Granted, Locke has been a bit myopic with his obsession about the island and the hatch at times, and he's made some bad calls. But as he already said, he's a man of faith - and in case you never noticed, people who act on leaps of faith don't always adhere to reason. Locke obviously didn't think the Others were going to show up, or that if they did it wasn't something that a camp full of people armed with guns and knives couldn't deal with. If I had been in his situation, even being the more rational and cautious guy that I am, I wouldn't want to wait either. I'd want to know what the fuck was down that hole. Kate obviously felt the same way. Nobody held a gun to her head and made her go down the hole, and it made sense for Locke to lower her down first, because he's a big guy and I doubt she could have returned the favor. Locke makes mistakes like everyone else, but he IS a fascinating character (and Terry O'Quinn has done great things in the role).

Quote:
Man, Lost fans sure are thin-skinned about their show being criticized. This just in: Your show has weaknesses and has been building up an unweildy mythology at a rate even more impressive than The X-Files, and not everybody enjoys that.

Besides, the better alternative is Veronica Mars, which managed to handle build and resolve its mysteries with style last year. That Lost will probably get four or five times more viewers on a weekly basis is just sad.


Not thin-skinned at all. It's your loss (no pun intended) if you don't dig the show. I'm sorry that you don't, but if you like something else in that time slot better, by all means, go for it. It's just that your criticisms of the show have seemed a bit nitpicky and bitchy, like you almost take personal offense that the show didn't live up to whatever expectations you had for it. I'm genuinely sorry you're not enjoying it anymore. I, on the other hand, am more into it than ever. I'm sure Veronica Mars is a decent show from what I've heard, and if you prefer that a show wrap up all its mysteries for you by the season finale', then that's cool. But some of us enjoy the deepening mysteries of LOST. Sure the show could eventually jump the shark, but I don't think it's anywhere near that point yet. Even if we never get satisfactory answers to everything, it's more about the journey than the destination. Hell, I might actually be disappointed if they end up explaining EVERYTHING to us by the time it's over. Some mysteries are best enjoyed when they remain just that - MYSTERIES Very Happy

Anyway, no hard feelings dude, but I really think you're gonna be missing out this season.
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Erik The Movieman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One little addition to the one bitch I had from the show last night.

Wouldn't it have been better without the scene at the stadium? I'm talking from a purely aesthetics view of storytelling.

The show could have ended with the Doc going "You?" and we all would have been "um, you who? What the hell is going on now?" - just like always.

Then next week they could have played the flashback to open the show.

This week's show loses nothing because the runner's advice on how to handle the accident chick from Ed really didn't add anything that the scene where he discovers she's not paralyzed didn't have already. A beautiful little scene about hope and faith balanced against science - a theme I can't wait to see explored on the show.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno, I think the way they set it up with the stadium flashback was just fine. If they had just shown Jack saying "YOU!" at the end, it would have been puzzling, but not that gripping. But knowing that Jack has already met this guy once, and that he's somehow on the island now (or a copy of him, perhaps) - now THAT's a real mindfuck! I lay in bed for an hour afterward churning mental gears over that one.

The writers know what they're doing.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, anyone else getting a tad annoyed at all the uncessary flashbacks and rehashes and padding this season? The last 2 backstories, though enjoyable, gave us zero new information, and we haven't learned a goddamn thing of importance about the bunker or the Others. And now they're going on a 3-week hiatus?

They'd better come back with one kick-ass episode in 3 weeks. Word is they're killing off one of the characters. Shannon, Charlie, and Claire are all ripe for the slaughter if you ask me.
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